RIP_Cheems , avatar

You got games on your tesla?

BrownianMotion , avatar

The comment about roundabouts is the same for Australia. You wait a roundabout entrance, with your indicator telling people what you intend to do on the roundabout, and that indication stays until you are ready to leave the roundabout, which you are then required to indicate left (unless you were already indicating left!).

Having moving buttons on the steering wheel is an absolutely absurd idea. Not just for indicating, anything important (I dont mean volume control for the radio, or phone answer button) should never be on a rotating object, where it can be inaccessible or "not where it should be" in a time of need (or required).

bigschnitz ,

That's a regional thing - I was very confused when I lived in QLD and that's how people were driving. In Victoria everyone indicates the final direction before they enter the intersection (eg indicate right before entering if you're taking 3rd exit, indicate left if you're taking first exit).

BrownianMotion , avatar

I think that is what I said.

But on exiting we will have to indicate left. so if I'm taking the 3rd exit, I am indicating right, until just before I get to it, where I then change to left indicate to say I'm exiting. Even if you are going straight (so not indicating) you are still require to indicate left when about to exit.

Its less meaningful on a 3 or 4 road roundabout, but when the roundabout has 5 or more roads, or maybe even a double roundabout (There is one here, and its an accident hotspot!!) then indicating your leaving is very important.

Pretty sure that this road rule in a national rule, not per state. But I know that some places do not enforce the exit indication.

dai ,

It's not law in VIC iirc, it's a common courtesy but not a requirement. Like when indicating to jump in a lane, giving the driver who let you in a wave. Or blinking your headlights when there is a copper in the direction you came from.

BrownianMotion , avatar

I found it, just to put it to bed. It is a National rule, but it is interpreted differently between states.

I wished that the link was more from our government, however I followed up the National laws this posts states, and they are indeed correct. Australian Road Rule 118 says it is required (in any circumstance) but only if practical. And that seems to stem from Vic and other states with larger 3 or 4 lane roundabouts (which would suck).

The post also comments:
A casual search of internet forums reveals many confused drivers believing that this is optional, or is not a road rule, or is, indeed, a silly thing to do. From personal experience, the vast majority of drivers do not indicate left when leaving roundabouts. The law, however, is clear that a left change of direction signal must be given when leaving a roundabout, ‘if practicable’.

So I'm happy to indicate left on leaving the roundabout, it doesnt bother me anyhow. But it would be a total headache for Tesla drivers, and my indicators are on my wheel and not in the right location at the time, would not constitute as "impractical" as far at the process. The car might be impractical, the the process should not have been,

fivemmvegemite ,

Yeah if a roundabout is small - single lane, 2-3 exits, 10m or less in diameter - you can get away with doing this (indicating your final direction).

Once they get bigger - bigger diameter, multiple lanes, more exits - its safer to indicate your intention to enter and exit the roundabout.

Wahots , avatar

Yikes, that is incredibly dangerous. Hopefully, they get recalled to fix that issue. No turn signal stick is going to cause a lot of accidents if people are unfamiliar with the car or are spinning the steering wheel and pressing the wrong button (or no buttons, because it's too difficult).

BigDanishGuy ,

While in the EU Teslas were already "banned", if you want a proper cat B license, and not just a cat B(78). If you take the test in a car with automatic transmission you get a code 78 license, with which you can legally only drive automatic transmission vehicles.

Gestrid ,

Is the EU mostly manual transmissions?

In the US, seeing a manual transmission these days is somewhat rare. I used to work at a car dealership's service department as a valet, and most of us younger guys who'd never driven a manual before had to get someone else to drive it whenever one showed up. (That happened maybe once a month or less.)

butterflyattack ,

I live in the UK, I've only ever driven manuals. I know one or two people with automatics, wouldn't fancy having one myself though. I feel like the manual shift gives me more control.

parachaye , avatar

I prefer manuals, they're more fun to drive, but the future is inevitably automatic with EVs.

iamtherealwalrus ,

Yes Europe is mostly manual. You pay a heavy premium to get a car with automatic transmission. Anecdotally, I bought a Skoda ~5 years ago and had to pay ~20% more for automatic transmission than manual.

BigDanishGuy ,

Manuel transmission used to be the norm. The last couple of times I rented a car/got a loaner at the mechanic, I was asked if an automatic would be OK. I have met people who avoid automatics altogether. Probably because they're unsure of how to drive them. TBF the first time I test drove an automatic, the first stop I made, I was glad to be wearing my seat belt, as I was used to use left foot, push that pedal hard and then brake... My wife and I were almost climbing down from the dashboard after that.

When I said earlier that manuels used to be the norm, that's because of the emergence of EVs and PHEVs. Our EV was our first car with no clutch.

Sooo after writing that boring drivel above, I decided to look it up on the most used second hand car platform. Turns out the about half the cars registered as pure ICEs are automatics. But then sampling the search results it's evident that a lot of the cars on the first page, have been registered wrong, and are in fact hybrids. So I don't have a solid figure. I've loitered the sales floor of my mechanic for 30mins, while my car is in for diagnosics. Looks like about 3 out of last 20 or so ICEs I've looked at are automatics.

Blackmist ,

Had a quick look at used cars here.

Seems very much dependent on which country you're in. France seems 50/50, Germany a lot more Automatic, Belgium prefers manual. Been to Iceland a few times and that is mostly automatic. The UK is mostly manual.

corship ,

Nah, automatic are common.

The reasoning is, if you know how to drive manual you also know how to drive automatic, but not vice versa.

fruitycoder ,

I was even told that my insurance would be lower because manuals were harder to steal because so few people can drive'm.

RBWells ,

I wish that was true in my city. I love driving the manual shift car but it certainly hasn't saved us anything on car insurance. The idea of a car thief who can't drive stick shift is so funny, needs a movie. The only benefits beyond fun and not worrying about an automatic transmission failing is some odd respect from valet guys and mechanics and old men.

SweatyFireBalls ,

I'm an American living in Denmark. Everyone here knows how to drive them even if their current car is automatic. They are becoming more popular, though.

erwan ,

Of course everyone knows how to drive an automatic, there is nothing to learn if you already know how to drive a manual. You just push the pedal and the car moves.

samokosik , avatar

At least in my country and in the middle of the EU, manuals are still more popular than automatic ones. Usually because no one really wants an electric cars (due to lack of infrastructure and high price), people just get the basic petrol cars with manual transmissions.

Kanda ,

Used to be, but the transition to mostly automatic is happening as we speak

Carter ,

Can we just ban them entirely? Horrible cars.

angstylittlecatboy ,

Norway, where Tesla is becoming the most popular car brand

How the fuck are Norwegians affording that

JohnEdwa , avatar

Because they are rich. Also Norway has quite large government subsidies for EVs. IIRC they are exempt from the 25% VAT for example.
EVs aren't exactly cheap, but petrol cars are even more expensive.

Revonult ,

I am more concerned about why the Witcher 3 is featured on the car's screen. Does it double as a PC?

Edit: Spelling

wizzor ,

Yea, fof models X and S, they have a discrete GPU and can run steam.

ReveredOxygen , avatar

I assume the GPU is intended to be used by the autopilot AI?

BigDanishGuy ,

Imagine crashing because you set the graphics too high in your game, and it got priority on the GPU so the self driving AI process hanged. Better reboot the car before the cops show.

moon ,

Nah it's so you can get some gaming in while you're cruise controlling home and drunk

pete_the_cat ,

... What?

replicat ,

With what OS?

I thought that was cloud streaming.

Shady_Shiroe , avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

  • Loading...
  • sudoku ,

    Usually you use the car provided by the examining institution anyways

    glitch1985 ,

    In my state you take the driving test at the DMV using your own vehicle.

    PlusMinus ,

    Is your state in Norway?

    Ludrol , avatar

    In Poland the Learning cars and Exam cars are provided by driving school and exam body that have special modyfications done to them. They also need to be specyfically marked as Learning and Exam vehicle.

    Idk how it is in norway but from the article it sound similar.

    lemmyvore ,

    It's always been like this in most European countries. You take the exam on cars provided by either the examiner or your driving school. If you're super lucky you get to take it on the car you used the most while learning but that would be blind luck, depends how cars get allocated and how many people are taking the exam on that particular day.

    The reason is that in Europe we have to use certified cars for learning and exam, and also they need to have double command — they are fitted with extra pedals on the passenger side so the instructor/examiner can take over in case of imminent collision or to demonstrate a point.

    Shady_Shiroe , avatar

    Lol, in my part of America instructors are like, "I don't know who you are, but I trust you enough to not kill us both"

    ZiemekZ ,

    You take the exam on cars provided by either the examiner or your driving school.

    The second option usually happens only if you wanna get an automatic-only car driving license (B78), like me. I had to pay my instructor for renting me his car for the exam's duration – standard practice, especially since it was his "daily" after working hours.

    If you’re super lucky you get to take it on the car you used the most while learning

    If you want to get the full driving license (B) and have no disabilities, you learn on a driving school's manual and take an exam on an examination center's manual. They're separate entities, so you never get the same physical car. At least the model should be the same – driving schools usually match their fleet with whichever model local examination center picked. E.g. in Warsaw it's Hyundai i20, so most (if not all) schools teach on Hyundai i20.

    depends how cars get allocated

    Like I've said before, examination center's cars are never used for teaching. That's driving school's job.

    lemmyvore ,

    Yeah but it can work the other way around. In Romania for example the examiners are Police and you don't take the exam on Police cars, they have arrangements to use driving school cars.

    zingo ,

    Does anyone remember K.I.T.T from Knight Rider in the 80's?

    Same steering wheel! Haha

    wischi , (edited )

    But K.I.T.T. actually delivered on the full self driving part.

    zingo ,

    Hahaha yeah that's right!
    Jump master.

    arc ,

    The new Tesla Model 3 should be banned from the whole of Europe until they put the indicator stalk back. It is virtually impossible to safely and legally traverse a roundabout without it.

    Pyr_Pressure ,

    How do people indicate without it? Is the car supposed to automatically turn it on once it senses you leaving the lane?

    Mr_Dr_Oink ,

    In the article it says they replaced it with force touch buttons but the driving instructors all found the buttons to be disorientating and dangerous on roundabouts whilst trying to turn the wheel. The stalk makes for a mich more fluid and less distracting method.

    Tesla believe that no turn signals will be needed once they perfect self deiving cars (likely never....)

    arc , (edited )

    It has little buttons on the wheel for left or right instead of a stalk. Problem is when you're going through a roundabout you're twirling the wheel around so it is almost impossible to to know where the buttons are at any given point in time. A stalk stays put, the buttons are anywhere depending on where the wheel is at. I think this video demonstrates it most clearly -

    Trollception ,

    Do you fully rotate the Tesla wheel though? I know with electronic steering racks it's possible to control the car like an F1 is driven so you never need to go hand over hand to make a turn. The steering is speed sensitive and at higher speeds the wheel is less responsive. Lexus is introducing this in the US on a model. Does the Tesla not have the same?

    The video you posted has a circular wheel versus the thumbnail of the post has an F1 style wheel.

    arc ,

    The wheel in a Model 3 has a typical steering wheel motion 1 1/2 rotations or whatever either way - you have no idea where the buttons will be at any given moment especially on a roundabout where you could be rolling right, rolling left and having to signal at the same time. Even if it were steer by wire and yoke like, the buttons are still moving around. So drivers have no chance of indicating safely or as the law requires. Basically all of this nonsense so Tesla can cheap out on a stalk which is probably a $10 part.

    Which is why I think they should be banned or recalled in Europe.

    bane_killgrind ,

    That's just too late to signal...

    jasondj ,

    What the fuck is the point of an indicator after you’d already started the action. That light ain’t indicating any more about the driver than the fact that they bought a Tesla after 2022, and that tells you everything you need to know about them.

    AlecSadler ,

    When I drive roundabouts I keep my hands on the wheel in the same spots so in relation to my thumb, the turn signals are in the same spot?

    I think if the wheel wasn't a yoke shape, it'd be different because I might just put one hand on top, but in this case it works OK.

    NotMyOldRedditName ,

    Give it another few years and I think all Teslas will use the new steer by wire in the CT and the problem will go away anyway.

    Edit: maybe few is generous, whenever the next major refreshes happen after a few years.

    psud ,

    Since the yoke forces you to keep your hands on the same place relative to the button, presuming you're keeping your hands on the wheel

    systemguy_64 ,

    I'm all for hating Tesla, but if your vehicle is approved for Norwegian roads, and is the correct class, it should be able to be used in the driving test. Why should it matter how you signal, as long as you do it? You could even do hand signals if you wanted. (PS learn your countries' hand signals)

    BreakDecks ,

    If you had read the article, you would know that this has nothing to do with your car. You can learn to drive whatever car you want in Norway.

    Some Norwegian driving schools are making it policy not to buy Teslas as training vehicles because they use non-standard controls. They only want training vehicles that use standard controls, because that's the best way to teach a student.

    This makes sense. If most cars have a stalk, teach students to drive that way, not with the weird car that's slowly transforming into an Xbox. If students own a Tesla, they can still learn to drive it, the driving schools are just unlikely to have that model in their lot.

    Joelk111 ,

    Not even sure why an article was needed. No shit they're going to want cars with standard controls for driving schools.

    psud ,

    The point of the article is to say "new Tesla indicator controls are bad and unsafe"

    Yarmin ,

    which they really aren't in the first place I've used it and never had a problem

    AA5B ,

    That makes a lot more sense.

    I made a similar decision in that my teen is not allowed to use my Tesla while learning to drive. Regardless if the turn signal controversy, Tesla controls are different. It’s easy enough for an experienced driver to pick up but I’m concerned about the opposite. If a new driver is used to everything happening automatically, they won’t have good habits for driving more typical vehicles.

    But there shouldn’t be outrage: I expected to use the same logic to make them learn on a manual transmission. However those were always rare in US, modern CVT, paddle annd other electronic automatics make them less useful, and of course EVs have no need for a transmission.

    IndoorParking ,

    My friend from West Coast when visiting us rented a Tesla for a week at a huge premium specifically because "that's what I know how to drive now".

    We're doomed.

    BakedCatboy ,

    It would be weird if Tesla pushed the envelope on non-standard controls so much that it became the new stick vs automatic. Kids will be like I can't drive your car because I don't know how to use a brake pedal (one pedal driving) or park without the overhead 360 radar thingy. I had a similar thought when I rode with a friend who was so distracted by his phone while driving that he relied on the front collision warning to tell him when to look up from his phone.

    bane_killgrind ,

    Make them wear a buttplug, they'll forget how to pucker

    Death , (edited )

    the article says that it's more difficult to use this turn signal in the roundabout ( as the button is on the wheel so its position shifted along with the steering wheel, as opposed to the static position of the stalk ) and the driver has to shift a part of their attention to locate the button
    The person who found this also ask other instructors and they agreed, that's why they're not buying this model

    but IMO
    if I'm an ownwer of a driving school looking to buy new cars for students, I'd pick more generic one too. Students would prefer to learn how to operate most cars than a specific model.
    Like how most music school would prefer normal guitar than double neck guitar

    AA5B ,

    My kids’ driving school has cars without a backup cam. I don’t know if that’s intentional or just older cars, but I believe it’s a better choice to learn how to drive without that assistance

    dankm ,

    I taught my son in my father's Mustang instead of my (much) newer car. Yes traction control, but no shift indicator, no telling you what gear it thinks you should be in, no holding the brake on a hill, no automatic releasing of the parking brake, no lane keep assist and no backup camea.

    AA5B ,

    Yeah, unfortunately all our cars are all wheel drive with traction control, antilock brakes and hill hold. All have backup cams, cross traffic warnings, and nothing that needs to be shifted while driving.

    My teen’s first car will be my old Subaru, which is pretty well loaded , and difficult to lose traction with. I do wish I had something more basic for them to learn on. We’re supposed to get snow this weekend so hopefully I’ll be able to have them drive in slippery conditions

    Aarrodri ,

    Hey potato...did you read the article ?

    hoya ,

    Yeah, it's not designed with roundabouts, (i.e. road infrastructure designed with logic and common sense) in mind.

    Voroxpete ,

    It's not designed with any common sense in mind. They just figured they could a) cut costs and b) make the vehicle look "cleaner", because Musk and the people who work for him are intellectually incurious morons who refuse to learn why things are designed the way they are before trying to reinvent them.

    The thing about breaking the rules is that if you want to really do it well, you have to understand why those rules exist in the first place. That's hard to do when you start from the position of just assuming that you're smarter than everyone else.

    kameecoding ,

    i am not sure they even kept the cost down since they had to reintroduce the option of normal steering wheels, this just another case of Musk thinking it looks cool so it should be, but then done poorly because they don't have the engineering expertise to do it properly like lexus did it

    This is just another case of Cybertruck shit.

    shasta ,

    How did Lexus do it?

    shasta ,

    How did Lexus do it?

    kameecoding ,
    arc ,

    It was designed to cut costs and hope fanbois would think it was innovation. It's so dangerous a change it should be banned in countries where drivers are expected to properly indicate while traversing roundabouts.

    KeenFlame ,

    Cuz that's the only place you want to signal intent to other drivers?

    Bazoogle ,

    Well, in a roundabout how else are the other drives gonna know you turn right?

    KeenFlame ,

    There are other places you signal intent. At every turn in fact

    InFerNo ,

    Sometimes I need to disable the limiter, which happens to be a button in the same position as Tesla put the turn signal buttons, while in a turn, and it's just impossible.

    Kbobabob ,

    You need to disable the limiter mid turn? Are you trying to power slide?

    rab ,

    Why else would you buy a rwd car

    InFerNo ,

    Coming out of a 30 zone onto a roundabout, then 50 from then on, but by the time I realize I forgot to disable the 30 limit it's already too late. It's merely an annoyance, but I can't imagine the same scenario with the indicators in the same spot.

    hackris ,

    Tesla’s reasoning for going away with a method universally used for signaling turn for decades is that it enables them to remove a physical part, the stalk, and it believes activating a turn signal will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving.

    Why the hell do billionaires keep laughing in our faces? I swear every time one of them or their companies opens their mouth, it's like they're making fun of us, the poor people.

    "We care about your privacy" — (they don't)
    "a turn signal will soon be unnecessary"

    deafboy , avatar

    a turn signal will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving

    That's like not including a stick for the manual transmission, because the automatic one is just around the corner.

    I wish I possessed this kind of optimism in my daily life :D

    Bazoogle ,

    I enjoy driving stick, but stick will likely not last forever. We will not be able to burn fossil fuels for that much longer in the grand scheme of things. Electric vehicles usually have a single speed transmission, so there are literally no gears to change. Perhaps there may be an alternative fuel vehicle that still has multiple speed transmission, in which case stick could still exist, though how many car manufacturers would make them?

    Globulart , (edited )

    Even in petrol cars automatic transmissions are more common than manual for new cars now. Automatic has just become better and better, and there's just very little reason to have a manual these days.

    dual_sport_dork , avatar

    Probably no one, but there is nothing preventing from enthusiasts from hooking an electric drive motor up to a traditional manual transmission just to be perverse. I would.

    Bazoogle ,

    What would the manual transmission do? Unless you literally mean it doesn't impact the cars driving and is just there for you to move around. Electric vehicles are not changing gears, so there are no gears to hook up a manual transmission to

    dual_sport_dork , avatar

    It would give you a manual transmission driving experience. Nothing more.

    (There are no gears in an internal combustion engine, either. At least not in the context you're thinking of. The gears are in the transmission. That's why anyone in the Commonwealth calls it a "gearbox.")

    stoly ,

    And worse is that people have been complaining about the lack of buttons and knobs for some time already.

    Lucidlethargy , avatar

    Man, the other day I saw an entire row of prime spots free in a packed parking lot... "electric vehicles only" parking.

    So rich people parking... Cool. This feels great.

    psud ,

    Where I have driven the chargers are always in the furthest corner of the carpark

    jj4211 ,

    This has been my experience, and really the right way. As an EV owner, I don't need to charge most of the time and I should be willing to walk further if I really want to charge away from home.

    Of course, in general EV is great when you can charge at home. Not so great if you can't do that. Other than at a house, I only ever charge at work, and then only because work offers it for free.

    psud ,

    That's it. I almost only charge at home. Never at work, never at the shops. I can imagine people who can't charge at home will want work carpark charging

    On my Christmas/new year holiday I drove 1200km away, 600km a day two days there two back.

    The charge stops were three a day, each 10 or 15 minutes, though we could generally have skipped the one after lunch since the time to order, get, and eat lunch meant getting a full charge, and the car has something like 400km range on the highway, though only 350 on the freeway/motorway.

    One thing I found on that drive is that the charging network is mostly in the small towns (I guess that's because they can get competition between neighbouring towns to get the best deal on land leasing) and the chargers are always either near the town centre, or next to a park. One is behind the roadhouse restaurant near the motorway services - behind the staff parking, general parking is in front of the restaurant

    On the night between the two halves of the trip each way we stayed in a motel, and they give EV drivers a parking spot with a power point 10A x 240V so I could get about 80% full over night, which is enough for the next day's first drive. Calling them out since they're good: Goldfields motor inn, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

    jj4211 ,

    DC charging is fine for the occasional road trip, but I would absolutely hate it if that were my everyday charging solution.

    Home charging is fantastic, but without it, I'd find an EV impractical for day to day. With it, it's hands down better than dealing with a gas car.

    psud ,

    Shopping centres and work parking charges tend to be slow chargers

    jj4211 ,

    Which at my work, is fine. 3 hours of work charging gets me about 60 miles of range replenished. I am at work that long so it's fine.

    For 99.9% of my trips to a shopping center, it wouldn't be worth the trouble to plug in.

    1371113 ,

    Get a used leaf and park there.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    it believes activating a turn signal will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving.

    Okay, but self driving hasn't happened yet and still faces significant problems. Removing a turn signal for this is like smoking constantly because you think cancer will be cured in the future.

    Plus it breaks one of the unspoken rules of new designs. You never take away functionality, you only add it.

    rbn ,

    Unpopular opinion: I hate Elon Musk and basically never thought I'd consider buying a tesla. But to be fair, I did quite some research and a couple of test drives with various cars and overall the model 3 is the best deal for my requirements. Especicially, it seems to be the most energy efficient car in that size and cost range. You can drive a model 3 with around 15 kWh / 100 km even in winter on the highway where competitors range around 18-22.

    Regarding the two buttons for the turn signals: yes I'd probably prefer the old-fashioned approach with a lever but the two buttons are definitely not as bad as claimed in all the articles. I got used to it pretty quickly during the test drive and also in roundabouts it is practicable even thought not the most ideal approach.

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