joewilliams007 ,
joewilliams007 avatar

go to linux alreadiii

BearOfaTime ,



Now how do you: CAD, exchange, Publisher, Access, Excel (no, open versions of excel still don't come close, they can't even do tables), Onenote/SharePoint, etc, etc.

And Linux is as messed up in its own way. Power management is off by default, so it kills your laptop battery (at least on every version I've tested). Notifications that you can't silence without looking up a command line.

No, the learning curve is still too steep to recommend to people who I will have to support.

And while the Open/Libre office apps are "compatible", people don't have time to waste dealing with the ways they whack a document. Libre couldn't even properly display the spreadsheet I use to setup a new machine, with 3 sheets and a few hundred lines, because tables.

"Switch to Linux" is a simplistic answer that doesn't address the needs of users. And I use Linux every day, as a serverOS, running VM's and docker.

onion ,

What learning curve? Whether my mom clicks on the Firefox icon in Ubuntu or Windows makes zero difference

TimeSquirrel , avatar

Dude literally just explained the issues facing actual workers that use computers for productive activities, not your mother looking up tendie recipes.

TheVillageGuy ,

What's for dinner tonight, I wonder

far_university1990 ,

Joe Mama

Whayle , avatar

They "can't even do tables"!!!

SeedyOne ,

They hated him for he spoke the truth...

laverabe ,

Just as a minor correction - Librecalc can do tables. Why they didn't call it tables and bind it to CTRL&T is beyond me though. link

select the cells -> Data -> AutoFilter

I create them with CTRL&T through the custom shortcuts in options. They work about the same as Excel.

Librecalc is a little rough, but I'm actually starting to find it superior in functionality and customization compared to MS. And it's about 10x faster on very large spreadsheets for me.

I would also definitely recommend using use dark mode if you're going to use calc. Options -> Application Colors -> LibreOffice Dark

banneryear1868 ,

“Switch to Linux” is a simplistic answer that doesn’t address the needs of users. And I use Linux every day, as a serverOS, running VM’s and docker.

"Let me debate you about why you shouldn't use Windows" as if I want to use Windows, people who have no experience with the software in my industry dropping alternatives. Even had someone debate me after saying I'm a sysadmin in a mixed environment, and how I alone should just move the whole company and all our software vendors to Linux.

joewilliams007 ,
joewilliams007 avatar

uh hu, you locked yourself in. Imo if you dont need Excel, OneNote or any of that shit, its perfectly cool. For devs its even nicer not to have to deal with all the windows shit ways of doing things. As for documents, LaTeX is great.

Also, in the end, the command line is even easier than having to learn shitty user interfaces. And you get much faster with command line too. Windows likes to have 3 different design languages from different decades for no reason.

Using it as OS and as Server, it has been perfect for years.

People who don't use it either have a life and simply dont want things to change, or are too foolish to realise they are getting trolled with every update.

For people starting, just dual boot a Linux Distro. For the shit that requires windows boot into it. The rest can all be done in linux. Even boots faster.

And for average people probably the google documents / slides [...] will be more than enough.

Rip to people that need windows shit to be in their life for work. Though they could also use a windows vm.

raldone01 ,

I could not find any selfhostable solution that comes close to the features of one note. Handwriting, offline work and syncing are a must for me.

Also one note web sucks.

JayDee ,

Using syncthing and obsidian with the excalidraw addon does this. Don't know if that'll meet your standards, but it'll do handwriting, offline work, and syncing.

While obsidian is not open source, it is extensible with a large community, so it can do a very wide variety of workflows. It's what I used before moving to Logseq.

randomaside , avatar

What's slowing down Linux adoption?

Is it the monopoly Microsoft has on all PC hardware and strong relationships it has with desktop software partners that make leaving windows near impossible?

No, it must be the users.

/s insert principal Skinner meme

alphacyberranger , avatar


TheGrandNagus , (edited )

Gaming on Linux is ridiculously easy. And for some, easier than on Windows.

It's only really in VR where I notice Windows being better. On average, my games run better on Linux than on Windows, which is crazy considering they were made for Windows.

There are some games that use kernel-level anti-cheat (essentially a rootkit for your PC), these don't work in Linux, and Linux devs have made clear they won't accept inclusions of rootkits in the kernel.

alphacyberranger , avatar

Sorry but will games like GTA V, Forza Horizon 5, Doom eternal, Horizon Zero Dawn,Cocoon and all run on linux ?

jrgd ,

I am not sure if jest, but you could always take a few seconds at protondb to see that yes, all of those games do in fact run on Linux. Forza in particular seems to have issues for some users, but everything else works with minimal hassle.

kronarbob ,

Yes. Check yourself :).

Not all will run out of the box. Some require tweaks, some won't run as good as on windows.
But many games will run day one nowadays .

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

I've not heard of Cocoon, but the rest of them I own and yes.

Open steam, press play, game is running.

E: apparently Cocoon is steam deck verified, so works flawlessly.

ItsMeSpez ,


GTA V - Gold; seems to be playable for most people, with a few performance hiccups depending on your system.

Forza Horizon 5 - Silver; requires significant tinkering, but playable.

Doom Eternal - Gold; works well for most, but has some reported performance issues on some systems.

Horizon Zero Dawn - Gold

Cocoon - Platinum

Single player experiences like these aren't typically where you find problems with linux gaming, however. Games with accompanying anti-cheat software, like competitive shooters, fighters, etc. are typically problematic. Competitive titles are the only reason I have a windows partition at this point.

Gaming on linux is more viable than ever, and becoming more and more stable all the time - mostly thanks to Valve. That being said, your experience will be dependent largely on your hardware. There are known issues with Nvidia cards on linux, because Nvidia refuses to cooperate with the FOSS community, but even those issues seem to be easing up (although to be fair I don't follow this topic closely, as I have an AMD system). Anyone telling you there are no issues is lying to you, but so is anyone who tries to tell you that linux gaming is still borked. Do your research if you're interested in switching, and determine if the games you play are well supported or not. In the end if there is one game holding you back from switching and you want to switch, it's always an option to keep a windows partition around as a backup for games that don't play nice with linux.

Zeke ,

I game on Linux all the time. I've been playing apex legends, phasmophobia (VR), palworld, the finals, and so much more. It all works on Linux. There's not a lot of games that I can't play. Most of the time my sister, who's on Windows, has more trouble getting her games running.

TrickDacy ,

I forgot what 2008 was like. Thanks for the reminder

hagelslager ,

Nothing near the level of Adobe software for example.

phillaholic , avatar

Commercial support for it.

On a personal level, I installed Ubuntu for the first time in over a decade and found the experience worse. Previously I could download everything I needed either through the package manager or deb file easily. Ow I ran into a new flat pack type installer that has failing dependencies that weren’t found through command line either. The new mouse driver in gnome was hot garbage too with the touchpad sensitivity so high I couldn’t scroll more than a page and a half at even the lightest touch. No settings to change it either. Windows is far easier at this point.

Coreidan ,

These types of comments are annoying and super unhelpful.

Nice job /s

StopSpazzing , avatar

It's called WinPilot now.

nutsack ,

just use linux lmao

did i type this right? are you going to upvote my comment

PriorityMotif ,
sleepmode ,

The option to install Opera should be removed.

lud ,

What changed in windows 10? Mine looks the same as before.

ILikeBoobies ,

Per the article they are rolling out bing’s ai search

Follow up to Microsoft saying all their keyboards will need/include an ai hotkey button to bring up the ai search

lud ,

For fuck sake Microsoft.

At least I disabled the web search in the search bar long ago. I think I disabled it because of a bug that messed up search.

NaoPb ,

Can you imagine installing Windows and having to install 10 seperate programs just to fix all the issues with it?

GlitchZero ,

Every day with Windows is like this. It’s a fucking nightmare. I don’t know what else to do.

lukstru ,

Install linux :)

YodaDaCoda ,

I tried installing Linux on the new work laptop yesterday.

The keyboard wasn't recognised. The fucking keyboard.

Apparently it's fixed in kernel 6.6 but nothing has that yet coz they're all using the earlier LTS

nutsack ,

i didn't even have to scroll to find the first instance of this comment

DreitonLullaby ,

Truly Truly, I say unto you, install Linux; it's what you really must do.

GlitchZero ,

I have a few games that don’t run on Steam. How big of a pain is it to get them running?

This is like 50-70% of my PC usage.

lukstru ,

You can search on e.g. Lutris if the game is supported. It's usually just a one button install

GlitchZero ,

Thanks. Looks like it’s all Wine wrappers. 🫤

nolight ,

It is not uncommon to find "Wine wrappers" to actually work better than on Windows itself.

averyfalken ,

Fairly easy with something like lutris or the heroic game launcher if said games are on gig amazon gaming or epic

GlitchZero ,

No, they have their own launchers.

DreitonLullaby ,

I game on Linux and mainly play games bought from GOG. Both GOG and Epic games are extremely easy to get working, and are as simple as downloading Heroic Games Launcher, signing into GOG and/or Epic, and choosing the game you want to download from your library. While it is possible to use the official GOG Galaxy client with Lutris and WINE, I personally don't recommend it, as it's quite a glitchy and laggy experience, and is only done by people who can't live without GOG achievements. For GOG.. just use Heroic. It's just as easy to use as the official Galaxy client is on Windows and also supports cloud-saves.

I've never used Amazon, but Heroic also recently added downloading your Amazon Prime games as an option, which I imagine is just as easy to get working as GOG and Epic Games already are.

This part isn't necessary, but if you want to play those games but launch them from Steam, you can add each game individually to Steam as a non-steam game through the Lutris or Heroic Games' interface. A handy app I recommend, which I never hear people mention, is BoilR, which automatically adds all of your non-steam games in bulk into your Steam Library.

As for the EA App and Ubisoft Connect, I ditched them over a year ago due to not wanting to support the companies (same with Epic). I honestly don't remember what the process was exactly for those launchers, but I do remember it was very easy to set up in Lutris.

Lastly, I've never used either, but I've heard it's quite easy to set up in Lutris.

BearOfaTime ,

Right, right. Smh

Onenote, publisher, CAD. Excel (and don't give me open/libre can do it, no they can't. They are marginally compatible).

And a laundry list more of the issues trying to replace windows with Linux on the desktop.

If you work by yourself and don't share docs, yea, could probably work. I need to trust that what I send is what people see.

Try to open an excel workbook with tables on open/libre and see what happens.

BluesF ,

Specialist software in general is patchy at best. There are often FOSS alternatives... But in the same way they aren't compatible with what other people are using.

trslim ,

Truly the Bethesda of operating systems.

Blackmist ,

I've no idea what MS are even doing with all this shit.

I'm like 95% sure I had an AI icon in the search bar yesterday, and today it's a briefcase. 🤷

lunachocken ,

I guess for some reason it decided to pack up

KrokanteBamischijf ,

I have no idea why they're even remotely interested in Windows as a product anymore. Surely they can't expect that much revenue from integrated AI services when most of the general public's needs can be covered by web services that will severely outmatch Microsoft's development speed (y'know because of juggling legacy code and all).

Considering the fact that they gain most of their revenue by far from their Azure cloud services and enterprise customers, it just seems like a stupid business decision to invest this much into all kinds of random features for their desktop OS aimed at consumers.

In proper systems architectecture theory, we generally try to avoid mixing up functionality this much because a modular design allows your system to evolve without too much pain. Why build all this crap into Windows when you can just opt-in by installing an application for it?

I really don't get it...

PriorityMotif ,

They make a lot off of business licencing. They still push the consumer and education side in order to create familiarity.

"Gaming contributed $7.11 billion in revenue for the quarter, more than the $5.26 billion from Windows, but behind the $13.47 billion from Office and cloud services and the giant $23.95 billion from server products and cloud services."

Facebones ,

I've never had any major issues with windows and I can strip out what I don't like, so whatevs. I like Linux, but gaming, so I roll with windows.

Windows Server on the other hand, fuck that noise. Ugh.

averyfalken ,

Gamings gotten pretty good with linux. I made the switcheroo when windows forced an update that undid a lot of my changes to windows AGAIN and I was like evwrytime they do this I have to take time to finish this and was pissed.

All games I play work on Linux no problem and all the games I've been interested since then have worked day 1; but of course I've always taken issue with games that have kernel level anticheats.

Rooter ,

As someone who uses windows to produce music, bloat is a huge issue, latencymon Is a great tool to check for programs and drivers that can cause audio dropouts.

And win 11 has been great, didn't have to change much to get it to work. I tried several forms of Linux and it was too slow, driver issues, and plugins that were impossible to get working.

Win 10 was bad, but 7 was worse.

MeanEYE , avatar

Driver issues aside, have you played with JACK on RTOS kernel?

Balinares ,

JACK is very cool and if you're willing to tinker there's some really awesome stuff that can be done with LADISH session management and e.g. native Linux VSTs.

It's still a non-option for musicians who just want to do music, not tinkering.

MeanEYE , avatar

I was mostly referring to the latency. RTOS kernel prioritizes timing over performance, so it should be right up your alley when it comes to music handling. I know it has been used in some instruments and mixers.

Jack is kind of iffy to tinker around I agree, however PipeWire, which is these days standard on up to date distributions should handle latency much much better without any great need for tinkering as it supports all the interfaces of Jack, PulseAudio and others. So you can just use whichever application you want and you get low latency backend regardless.

Things are improving at a rather fast pace in Linux world and even giving developers feedback is a useful contribution.

Balinares ,

Thank you! I know all these things. This still doesn't help when the DAW support and VST compatibility aren't there.

If you're intent on doing music production on Linux, at least do yourself a favor and get a Reaper license, there are few enough pro DAWs that are Linux native. But be aware that many of the big industry VSTs are still not going to work. If you're fine sticking to e.g. ZynAddSubFX or Pianoteq, though, knock yourself out.

But you can't reasonably expect musicians to jump those hoops and abandon their fav VSTs when their Windows tooling is there, and works.

MeanEYE , avatar

Am not expecting anything. Am just wondering how people in the industry are fairing with recent changes.

Rooter ,

No, but it hardly matters, since most of my plugins won't work on linux.

ndondo ,

It really is a shame that music production is so painful in Linux. All I need to make the final switch

kalkulat , avatar

After leaving Macs (and Logic) (Apple software great, Apple iMac shit) switched to LInux over 10 years ago. Haven't made music since (hardware in boxes). Fully learned that Linux music ain't got that swing.

I recently heard that newer PipeWire has improved things a quite a lot. Haven't tried it yet ... not sure I remember how to play any instruments any more.

polle ,

You could try bitwig, the daw is really good and has a native linux client for years.

kalkulat , avatar

Ya know ... I'll just give that a close hard look. Thanks!

banneryear1868 ,

As someone who uses windows to produce music

Exactly and some other media/creative stuff as well. Windows is the only way to run Ableton with full VST support on my own hardware. Then if I'm going to need a Windows workstation anyway, I might as well use it for gaming too, and lump in all my other "power station" uses. It's sometimes frustrating when you mention this and people who aren't familiar with these programs to try to debate you or assume you haven't entertained the alternatives. In my case I run Linux on my laptop and servers, and even some of my instruments like the monome norns and m8 are rpi based. Real time audio synthesis on linux is actually amazing, PureData and Supercollider are the ones I'm somewhat familiar with.

Rooter ,

Yeah but slightly lower latency is irrelevant really, windows based can get lower than 2ms now. And it just works.

banneryear1868 ,

Yeah and in those linux examples its not really latency that's important, plus those things run on Windows too. The Monome Norns is a raspberry pi shield with a linux platform and development community around it, where people write scripts to turn it in to all manner of musical devices. When it comes to a full DAW with VST support it's basically OSX or Windows, and if you don't want to be restricted to Apple hardware then congrats, you're using Windows.

progettarsi , (edited )


optissima , avatar

Yeah but we care that youre not.

kense ,

Why u're caring?

optissima , avatar

Because they're the ones that constantly make a fuss and are overall holding back the computing world by supporting a malicious organization that has a choke hold.

DreitonLullaby ,

The people saying to switch to Linux are half-joking, half-serious. Sometimes we can be a little too pushy by bringing up "just switch to Linux" too often, but usually we have good intentions for at least trying to encourage the switch, and it often-times does come from a place of care.

Coreidan ,

It’s a good way of being written off so no one listens to you

progettarsi ,

i care about software i use that aren't on linux and never will be

moon ,

Sir, may I offer you the holy scriptures that are the Arch wiki?

progettarsi ,

NO PLEASE GO AWAY PLEASE ok so now that i installed manjaro, where to buy funny socks?

RandomVideos ,

Another way of removing windows ai bloat is by using balenaetcher and an usb stick

NaoPb ,

Are you saying they should install Linux?

I know Rufus has options to modify the Windows image before writing it to your USB stick but AFAIK Balena can't write Windows images.

Sp00kyB00k ,

You mean dd like a madlad

werefreeatlast ,

I literally have a windows 10 installed that I haven't logged in since before AI came up. WTF! I can only imagine the massive update when I try to login next time.

jabathekek , avatar

You should just login in to a linux distro instead. (╭☞´ิ∀´ิ)╭☞

Kbobabob ,

Every fucking thread that is even remotely about "Windows"

frunch ,

You know you're on Lemmy, right? This is how it works here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Agrivar ,

Hopefully, that includes the downvote parade you're getting for being insufferable.

frunch ,

It was an observation, but hey everyone go ahead and downvote me anyway. Happy Valentine's Day, y'all -- i love ya anyway 🥂❤️

littlebluespark , avatar

Thanks, but these kids are born every second or more. 🤷🏼‍♂️

prosp3kt ,

To this point just use Linux already. You will be doing a lot of telemetry cleaning and even might be breaking things.

UsernameIsTooLon ,

My anti-cheat don't work on Linux

prosp3kt ,

But that's worse, because that implies ring 0 anticheat. That is synonym of rootkit.

vox , avatar

or use the enterprise edition which is the only windows edition with an option to disable telemetry using group policy editor. in the other versions, you have to resort to terrible hacks.

prosp3kt ,

It is bad the AMD support in windows. In Linux is better in my case. For sysadmin sorry but powershell is overengineered garbage. You need a very long command when in shell you got in three pipes. Even what are your proposing its hard to do, and sincerely i think it is better to just use a sane linux distro.

vox , avatar

idk it's over-engineered but it's actually pretty cool in it's own way. it's like a crappier version of nushell i guess. still I'd rather use nu.

CriticalMiss ,

Although im part of the Linux crowd, if you’re tired of reapplying debloat scripts every update, you could get the W10 IoT LTSC edition that only has security patches with no updates. You will have to pirate it though.

NaoPb ,

This might be interesting. I'm looking to have a few installs to test some of my programs in an actual Windows environment without having to daily drive Windows and without having to deal with all the unnecessary changes MS wants to make.

BearOfaTime , (edited )

Tiny 10/11

Activation script

Edit: My Tiny10 reports as LTSC for some reason, but I'm pretty sure Tiny isn't based on LTSC now that I've done some more reading.

Cihta , avatar

Neat. I tried this last night on my once top of the line machine (in 2012) because why not..

It didn't upgrade my win10 install but at least it didn't delete all my data. Maybe I goofed on that as I was tired.

I used the 23H2 iso but it installed 22H2.

I didn't use the script, it picked up my existing valid key.

It fails to update. Perhaps that's the point or bloat would come back?

But if it can't update then what's the point?

Again, might be my fault but I'm not really trusting this image yet. Not enough to reinstall and relicense my tools.

I use Linux where I can but I'm bound to some windows-only proprietary software. I do use a stripped down win10 VM for a lot of it but at least it updates.

Will update this comment if i find that I'm at fault.

BearOfaTime , (edited )

LTSC only gets security updates. No feature updates.

It's intended for stability, so you don't wake up and suddenly nothing works right because of an update. That won't happen on LTSC.

I wouldn't use it to update an existing install, that's not what it's intended for (and probably pointless as it may retain stuff that came with the existing os).

Cihta , avatar

Thank you. It does seem cool but I can't really keep up. I appreciate the explanation. I really thought it was a fully workable de-bloated win11. Which it is, but I need long term installs. I learned a few things though! So not a waste.

If i could ever figure out how to run a windows app via VM. Seamless mode comes close but not quite enough.

Anyway thanks and I didn't mean to be negative, just didn't totally get it.

Blue_Morpho ,

A non pirate solution is Windows Server Essentials 2022. It's like $300, has zero bloat and updates don't ever hijack your settings. Oh and you'll get over 10 years of security patches.

long_chicken_boat ,

does Windows Server Essentials comes with a desktop GUI? Can you install Steam and things like that like you'd normally do in Windows?

I'm happy with Linux, but my brother who is a gamer has Windows but he's annoyed af by updates and the AI nonsense. This seems like a perfect solution.

redcalcium ,

It should be able to run all windows apps, though you can use microsoft store to install apps.

Blue_Morpho , (edited )

Yes it is regular Windows but stripped of all the consumer apps like TikTok and CandyCrush. It has one extra app: Server Manager (A GUI like Control Panel with buttons to disk manager, device manager etc) which loads at startup and is easily disabled. Under the hood the registry has changes that tell Windows to give background tasks equal resources to the foreground app. This is needed for server use for smoother multitasking like Linux, but at the expense of a few FPS in games. You can edit the registry in regular Windows to act like Server and vice versa. They use the same kernel.

Cannonhead2 ,

This is intriguing. Does it still try to force you to use a Microsoft account? Would make no sense for a server version, but you never know with microsoft's bullshit sometimes.

Blue_Morpho ,

Not even an option for MS account during setup.

banneryear1868 ,

I do both and happy with debloated Windows 11 Enterprise with automatic updates restricted to security only. Pirating now is running a powershell command that fetches activation scripts from github.

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