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DoctorButts , in The extension shinigami eyes is back.

I won't be impressed by this extension until it shows the user's remaining lifespan too

LambdaRX , avatar

Well, imagine you don't read terms and conditions and end up with half of your remaining lifespan.

PuddingFeeling907 OP , avatar

Chances are if someone is marked red they’re likely to be antivaxx.

gaifux ,

Whoa. How relevant and interesting to people

joewilliams007 , in You can remove or disable Windows 11 and 10's AI 'bloat' with new BloatynosyAI
joewilliams007 avatar

go to linux alreadiii

BearOfaTime ,



Now how do you: CAD, exchange, Publisher, Access, Excel (no, open versions of excel still don't come close, they can't even do tables), Onenote/SharePoint, etc, etc.

And Linux is as messed up in its own way. Power management is off by default, so it kills your laptop battery (at least on every version I've tested). Notifications that you can't silence without looking up a command line.

No, the learning curve is still too steep to recommend to people who I will have to support.

And while the Open/Libre office apps are "compatible", people don't have time to waste dealing with the ways they whack a document. Libre couldn't even properly display the spreadsheet I use to setup a new machine, with 3 sheets and a few hundred lines, because tables.

"Switch to Linux" is a simplistic answer that doesn't address the needs of users. And I use Linux every day, as a serverOS, running VM's and docker.

onion ,

What learning curve? Whether my mom clicks on the Firefox icon in Ubuntu or Windows makes zero difference

TimeSquirrel , avatar

Dude literally just explained the issues facing actual workers that use computers for productive activities, not your mother looking up tendie recipes.

TheVillageGuy ,

What's for dinner tonight, I wonder

far_university1990 ,

Joe Mama

Whayle , avatar

They "can't even do tables"!!!

SeedyOne ,

They hated him for he spoke the truth...

laverabe ,

Just as a minor correction - Librecalc can do tables. Why they didn't call it tables and bind it to CTRL&T is beyond me though. link

select the cells -> Data -> AutoFilter

I create them with CTRL&T through the custom shortcuts in options. They work about the same as Excel.

Librecalc is a little rough, but I'm actually starting to find it superior in functionality and customization compared to MS. And it's about 10x faster on very large spreadsheets for me.

I would also definitely recommend using use dark mode if you're going to use calc. Options -> Application Colors -> LibreOffice Dark

banneryear1868 ,

“Switch to Linux” is a simplistic answer that doesn’t address the needs of users. And I use Linux every day, as a serverOS, running VM’s and docker.

"Let me debate you about why you shouldn't use Windows" as if I want to use Windows, people who have no experience with the software in my industry dropping alternatives. Even had someone debate me after saying I'm a sysadmin in a mixed environment, and how I alone should just move the whole company and all our software vendors to Linux.

joewilliams007 ,
joewilliams007 avatar

uh hu, you locked yourself in. Imo if you dont need Excel, OneNote or any of that shit, its perfectly cool. For devs its even nicer not to have to deal with all the windows shit ways of doing things. As for documents, LaTeX is great.

Also, in the end, the command line is even easier than having to learn shitty user interfaces. And you get much faster with command line too. Windows likes to have 3 different design languages from different decades for no reason.

Using it as OS and as Server, it has been perfect for years.

People who don't use it either have a life and simply dont want things to change, or are too foolish to realise they are getting trolled with every update.

For people starting, just dual boot a Linux Distro. For the shit that requires windows boot into it. The rest can all be done in linux. Even boots faster.

And for average people probably the google documents / slides [...] will be more than enough.

Rip to people that need windows shit to be in their life for work. Though they could also use a windows vm.

raldone01 ,

I could not find any selfhostable solution that comes close to the features of one note. Handwriting, offline work and syncing are a must for me.

Also one note web sucks.

JayDee ,

Using syncthing and obsidian with the excalidraw addon does this. Don't know if that'll meet your standards, but it'll do handwriting, offline work, and syncing.

While obsidian is not open source, it is extensible with a large community, so it can do a very wide variety of workflows. It's what I used before moving to Logseq.

randomaside , avatar

What's slowing down Linux adoption?

Is it the monopoly Microsoft has on all PC hardware and strong relationships it has with desktop software partners that make leaving windows near impossible?

No, it must be the users.

/s insert principal Skinner meme

alphacyberranger , avatar


TheGrandNagus , (edited )

Gaming on Linux is ridiculously easy. And for some, easier than on Windows.

It's only really in VR where I notice Windows being better. On average, my games run better on Linux than on Windows, which is crazy considering they were made for Windows.

There are some games that use kernel-level anti-cheat (essentially a rootkit for your PC), these don't work in Linux, and Linux devs have made clear they won't accept inclusions of rootkits in the kernel.

alphacyberranger , avatar

Sorry but will games like GTA V, Forza Horizon 5, Doom eternal, Horizon Zero Dawn,Cocoon and all run on linux ?

jrgd ,

I am not sure if jest, but you could always take a few seconds at protondb to see that yes, all of those games do in fact run on Linux. Forza in particular seems to have issues for some users, but everything else works with minimal hassle.

kronarbob ,

Yes. Check yourself :).

Not all will run out of the box. Some require tweaks, some won't run as good as on windows.
But many games will run day one nowadays .

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

I've not heard of Cocoon, but the rest of them I own and yes.

Open steam, press play, game is running.

E: apparently Cocoon is steam deck verified, so works flawlessly.

ItsMeSpez ,


GTA V - Gold; seems to be playable for most people, with a few performance hiccups depending on your system.

Forza Horizon 5 - Silver; requires significant tinkering, but playable.

Doom Eternal - Gold; works well for most, but has some reported performance issues on some systems.

Horizon Zero Dawn - Gold

Cocoon - Platinum

Single player experiences like these aren't typically where you find problems with linux gaming, however. Games with accompanying anti-cheat software, like competitive shooters, fighters, etc. are typically problematic. Competitive titles are the only reason I have a windows partition at this point.

Gaming on linux is more viable than ever, and becoming more and more stable all the time - mostly thanks to Valve. That being said, your experience will be dependent largely on your hardware. There are known issues with Nvidia cards on linux, because Nvidia refuses to cooperate with the FOSS community, but even those issues seem to be easing up (although to be fair I don't follow this topic closely, as I have an AMD system). Anyone telling you there are no issues is lying to you, but so is anyone who tries to tell you that linux gaming is still borked. Do your research if you're interested in switching, and determine if the games you play are well supported or not. In the end if there is one game holding you back from switching and you want to switch, it's always an option to keep a windows partition around as a backup for games that don't play nice with linux.

Zeke ,

I game on Linux all the time. I've been playing apex legends, phasmophobia (VR), palworld, the finals, and so much more. It all works on Linux. There's not a lot of games that I can't play. Most of the time my sister, who's on Windows, has more trouble getting her games running.

TrickDacy ,

I forgot what 2008 was like. Thanks for the reminder

hagelslager ,

Nothing near the level of Adobe software for example.

phillaholic , avatar

Commercial support for it.

On a personal level, I installed Ubuntu for the first time in over a decade and found the experience worse. Previously I could download everything I needed either through the package manager or deb file easily. Ow I ran into a new flat pack type installer that has failing dependencies that weren’t found through command line either. The new mouse driver in gnome was hot garbage too with the touchpad sensitivity so high I couldn’t scroll more than a page and a half at even the lightest touch. No settings to change it either. Windows is far easier at this point.

Coreidan ,

These types of comments are annoying and super unhelpful.

Nice job /s

ratman150 , in Elon Musk demands another huge payday from Tesla

Here have the standard HR answer: sorry we don't have the budget due to outside factors, also we're doing layoffs in your department.

fluckx ,

But if you're doing layoffs in my department that frees up budget. So....there is budget?


Shrodingers budget

Pons_Aelius ,

HR: No, we need to have the layoffs as we are over budget.

Star OP , in "Did you realize that we live in a reality where SciHub is illegal, and OpenAI is not?"

It's so ridiculous when corporations steal everyone's work for their own profit, no one bats an eye but when a group of individuals do the same to make education and knowledge free for everyone it's somehow illegal, unethical, immoral and what not.

Grimy ,

Using publically available data to train isn't stealing.

Daily reminder that the ones pushing this narrative are literally corporation like OpenAI. If you can't use copyright materials freely to train on, it brings up the cost in such a way that only a handful of companies can afford the data.

They want to kill the open-source scene and are manipulating you to do so. Don't build their moat for them.

givesomefucks ,

And using publicly available data to train gets you a shitty chatbot...

Hell, even using copyrighted data to train isn't that great.

Like, what do you even think they're doing here for your conspiracy?

You think OpenAI is saying they should pay for the data? They're trying to use it for free.

Was this a meta joke and you had a chatbot write your comment?

webghost0101 , (edited )

The point that was being made was that public available data includes a whole lot amount of copyrighted data to begin with and its pretty much impossible to filter it out.
Grand example, the Eiffel tower in Paris is not copyright protected, but the lights on it are so you can only using pictures of the Eiffel tower during the day, if the picture itself isn't copyright protected by the original photographer. Copyright law has all these complex caveat and exception that make it impossible to tell in glance whether or not it is protected.

This in turn means, if AI cannot legally train on copyrighted materials it finds online without paying huge sums of money then effectively only mega corporation who can pay copyright fines as cost of business will be able to afford training decent AI.

The only other option to produce any ai of such type is a very narrow curated set of known materials with a public use license but that is not going to get you anything competent on its own.

EDIT: In case it isn't clear i am clarifying what i understood from comment, not adding to it.

RainfallSonata ,

I didn't want any of this shit. IDGAF if we don't have AI. I'm still not sure the internet actually improved anything, let alone what the benefits of AI are supposed to be.

RememberTheApollo ,

It doesn’t matter what you want. What matters is if corporations can extract $ from you, gain an efficiency, or cut their workforce using it.

That’s what the drive for AI is all about.

RainfallSonata ,

No doubt.

webghost0101 ,

A perfectly valid stance to take.

myslsl ,

Machine learning techniques are often thought of as fancy function approximation tools (i.e. for regression and classification problems). They are tools that receive a set of values and spit out some discrete or possibly continuous prediction value.

One use case is that there are a lot of really hard+important problems within CS that we can't solve efficiently exactly (lookup TSP, SOP, SAT and so on) but that we can solve using heuristics or approximations in reasonable time. Often the accuracy of the heuristic even determines the efficiency of our solution.

Additionally, sometimes we want predictions for other reasons. For example, software that relies on user preference, that predicts home values, that predicts the safety of an engineering plan, that predicts the likelihood that a person has cancer, that predicts the likelihood that an object in a video frame is a human etc.

These tools have legitamite and important use cases it's just that a lot of the hype now is centered around the dumbest possible uses and a bunch of idiots trying to make money regardless of any associated ethical concerns or consequences.

Grimy ,

You don't have to use it. You can even disconnect from the internet completely.

Whats the benefit of stopping me from using it?

be_excellent_to_each_other , avatar

So then we as a society aren't ready to untangle the mess of our infancy in the digital age. ChatGPT isn't something we must have at all costs, it's something we should have when we can deploy it while still respecting the rights of people who have made the content being used to train it.

assa123 , avatar

I would go even further and say that we should have it until we can be sure it will respect others' rights. All kind of rights, not only Copyright. Unlike Bing at the beginning, with all it's bullying and menaces, or Chatgpt regurgitating private information gathered from God knows where.

The problem with waiting is the arms race with other governments. I feel it's similar to fossil fuels, but all governments need to take the risk of being disadvantaged. Damned prisoner's dilemma.

givesomefucks ,

That's insane logic...

Like you're essentially saying I can copy/paste any article without a paywall to my own blog and sell adspace on it...

And your still saying OpenAI is trying to make AI companies pay?

Like, do you think AI runs off free cloud services? The hardware is insanely expensive.

And OpenAI is trying to argue the opposite, that AI companies shouldn't have to pay to use copyrighted works.

You have zero idea what is going on, but you are really confident you do

webghost0101 ,

I clarified the comment above which was misunderstood, whether it makes a moral/sane argument is subjective and i am not covering that.

I am not sure why you think there is a claim that openAI is trying to make companies pay, on the contrary the comment i was clarifying (so not my opinion/words) states that openAI is making an argument that anyone should be able to use copyrighted materials for free to train AI.

The costs of running an online service like chatgpt is wildly besides the argument presented. You can run your own open source large language models at home about as well as you can run Bethesda's Starfield on a same spec'd PC

Those Open source large language models are trained on the same collections of data including copyrighted data.

The logic being used here is:

If It becomes globally forbidden to train AI with copyrighted materials or there is a large price or fine in order to use them for training then the Non-Corporate, Free, Open Source Side of AI will perish or have to go underground while to the For-Profit mega corporations will continue exploit and train ai as usual because they can pay to settle in court.

The Ethical dilemma as i understand it is:

Allowing Ai to train for free is a direct threat towards creatives and a win for BigProfit Enthertainment, not allowing it to train to free is treat to public democratic AI and a win for BigTech merging with BigCrime

givesomefucks ,

You can run your own open source large language models at home about as well as you can run Bethesda’s Starfield on a same spec’d PC


Yes, you can download an executable of a chatbot lol.

That's different than running something remotely like even OpenAI.

The more it has to reference, the more the system scales up. Not just storage, but everything else.

Like, in your example of video games it would be more like stripping down a PS5 game of all the assets, then playing it on a NES at 1 frame per five minutes.

You're not only wildly overestimating chatbots ability, you're doing that while drastically underestimating the resources needed.


I think you literally don't know what people are talking about..

Do you think people are talking about AI image generators?

No one else is...

Auzymundius ,

I think you're confusing training it with running it. After it's trained, you can run it on much weaker hardware.

givesomefucks ,

The issue is it reproducing copyrighted works verbatim...

It can't do that unless it contains the entire text to begin with...

webghost0101 , (edited )

I am talking about generative AI, be it text or image both have a challenge with copyrighted material.

"executable of a chatbot"
lol, aint you cute

"example of video games"

Are you refering to my joke?

I am far from overestimating capacity, Starfield runs mediocre on a modern gaming system compared to other games.
The Vicuna 13b llm runs mediocre on the same system compared with gpt 3.5. To this date there is no local model that i would trust for professional use and chatgpt 3.5 doesnt hit that level either.

But it remains a very interesting, rapidly evolving technology that i hope receives as much future open source support as possible.

"I think you literally don’t know what people are talking about"
I hate to break it to you but you're embarrassing yourself.

I presume you must believe the the following lemmy community and resources to be typed up by a group of children, either that or your just naive. &

givesomefucks ,


I could just block some of the people who are really really into chatbots, but don't understand it in the slightest.

I think that might be more productive than reading a bunch of stuff from other people who don't understand it.

webghost0101 ,

HOT TAKE: Hugging face is run by people who are really into chatbots but dont understand it in the slightest.

I have been patient and friendly so far but your tone has been nothing but dismissive.

you cannot have a nuanced conversation about AI while excluding the entire Open Source field within it. That's simply unreasonable and i plore you to ask others because i know you wont take my word for it.


General_Effort ,

Allowing Ai to train for free is a direct threat towards creatives

No. Many creatives fear that AI allows anyone to do what they do, lowering the skill premium they can charge. That doesn't depend on free training.

Some seem to feel that paying for training will delay AI deployment for some years, allowing the good times to continue (until they retire or die?)

But afterward, you have to ask who's paying for the extra cost when AI is a normal tool for creatives? Where does the money come from to pay the rent to property owners? Obviously the general public will pay a part through higher prices. But I think creatives may bear the brunt, because it's the tools of their trade that are more expensive and I don't think all of that cost can be passed on.

webghost0101 ,

I don't think lowering the skill level is something we will need to worry about as over time this actually trickles up, A Creative professional trained with AI tools will almost always top a Amateur using the same tools.

The real issue is Style. If you are an Artist with a very recognizable specific style, and you make your money trough commissions you are basically screwed.
Many Artists feature a personal style and while borrowing peoples style is common (disney-esque) it's usually not a problem because within a unique and diverse human mind it rarely results in unintentional latent copying.

General_Effort ,

I think, in the short run, some have reason to worry about their skills. AI does make digital skills more important and manual drawing skills less so.

OTOH, I don't think it's reasonable to worry about styles. Go to aliexpress or some such place and look for paintings. They offer cheap "handmade" paintings and replicas of famos works. They don't offer novel paintings in someone else's style. I don't believe there is any demand for that.

webghost0101 ,

The people i worry about most are the independent "starvin" artists you may find at conventions or working from their social media profile.
They often do personalized commissioned pieces, what they are essential selling is the clients idea in a chosen style which they have mastered.
That entire biz is at risk of going away. I believe the talent of those artists is still valuable though so it is my hope they can go on and make higher level art using the tools they are fighting now.

Grimy ,

That is very well put, I really wish I could have started with that.

Though I envision it as a loss for BigProfit Enthertainment since I see this as a real boon for the indie gaming, animation and eventually filmmaking industry.

It's definitely overall quite a messy situation.

TwilightVulpine ,

It's not like all this data was randomly dumped at the AIs. For data sets to serve as good training materials they need contextual information so that the AI can discern patterns and replicate them when prompted.

We see this when you can literally prompt AIs with whose style you want it to emulate. Meaning that the data it was fed had such information.

Midjourney is facing extra backlash from artists after a spreadsheet was leaked containing a list of artist styles their AI was trained on. Meaning they can keep track of it and they trained the AI with those artists' works deliberately. They simply pretend this is impossible to figure out so that they might not be liable to seek permission and compensate the artists whose works were used.

tourist , avatar

Was this a meta joke and you had a chatbot write your comment?

if someone said this to me I'd cry

LWD , (edited )

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  • Grimy ,

    It's current and it's the only open source project that's under direct threat? I am both a fan of open source and of generative AI, not sure what that changes in the validity of my arguments.

    This isn't a gotcha but pure rhetoric, which is on par with you. Attack my arguments, or just ignore me the moment it becomes clear you can't insult yourself out of a debate like you did last time.

    I'm not even sure what exactly you are implying but I am not impressed.

    LWD , (edited )

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • Grimy ,

    That is literally rhetoric. I could say the same about you and never mentioning artists except when it's related to AI. But I don't, I pick your weak arguments apart like an adult instead.

    CIA_chatbot ,

    Hey man, that’s damn hurtful

    Grimy ,

    If the data has to be paid for, openAI will gladly do it with a smile on their face. It guarantees them a monopoly and ownership of the economy.

    Paying more but having no competition except google is a good deal for them.

    givesomefucks ,

    Eh, the issue is lots of people wouldn't be willing to sell tho.

    Like, you think an author wants the chatbot to read their collected works and use that? Regardless of if it's quoting full texts or "creating" text in their style.

    No author is going to want that.

    And if it's up to publishers, they likely won't either. Why take one small payday if that could potentially lead to loss of sales a few years down the row.

    It's not like the people making the chatbits just need to buy a retail copy of the text to be in the legal clear.

    Grimy ,

    The publisher's will absolutely sell imo. They just publish, the book will be worth the same with or without the help of AI to write it.

    I guess there is a possibility that people start replacing bought books with personalized book llm outputs but that strikes me as unlikely.

    dependencyinjection ,

    I’m not sure if someone else has brought this up, but I could see OpenAI and other early adopters pushing for tighter controls of training data as a means to be the only players in town. You can’t build your own competing AI because you won’t have the same amount of data as us and we’ll corner the market.

    TwilightVulpine ,

    OpenAI is definitely not the one arguing that they have stole data to train their AIs, and Disney will be fine whether AI requires owning the rights to training materials or not. Small artists, the ones protesting the most against it, will not. They are already seeing jobs and commission opportunities declining due to it.

    Being publicly available in some form is not a permission to use and reproduce those works however you feel like. Only the real owner have the right to decide. We on the internet have always been a bit blasé about it, sometimes deservedly, but as we get to a point we are driving away the very same artists that we enjoy and get inspired by, maybe we should be a bit more understanding about their position.

    Grimy ,

    Thats basically my main point, Disney doesn't need the data, Getty either. AI isn't going away and the jobs will be lost no matter what.

    Putting a price tag in the high millions for any kind of generative model only benefits the big players.

    I feel for the artists. It was already a very competitive domain that didn't really pay well and it's now much worse but if they aren't a household name, they aren't getting a dime out of any new laws.

    I'm not ready to give the economy to Microsoft, Google, Getty and Adobe so GRRM can get a fat payday.

    TwilightVulpine ,

    If AI companies lose, small artists may have the recourse of seeking compensation for the use and imitation of their art too. Just feeling for them is not enough if they are going to be left to the wolves.

    There isn't a scenario here in which big media companies lose so talking of it like it's taking a stand against them doesn't make much sense. What are we fighting for here? That we get to generate pictures of Goofy? The small AI user's win here seems like such a silly novelty that I can't see how it justifies just taking for granted that artists will have it much rougher than they already have.

    The reality here is that even if AI gets the free pass, large media and tech companies are still primed to profit from them far more than any small user. They will be the one making AI-assisted movies and integrating chat AI into their systems. They don't lose in either situation.

    There are ways to train AI without relying on unauthorized copyrighted data. Even if OpenAI loses, it wouldn't be the death of the technology. It may be more efficient and effective to train them with that data, but why is "efficiency" enough to justify this overreach?

    And is it even wise to be so callous about it? Because it's not going to stop with artists. This technology has the potential to replace large swaths of service industries. If we don't think of the human costs now, it will be even harder to make a case for everyone else.

    Grimy ,

    I fully believe AI will be able to replace 50% or more of desk jobs in the near future. It's definitely a complicated situation and you make good points.

    First and foremost, I think it's imperative the barrier for entry for model training is as low as possible. Anything else basically gives a select few companies the ability to charge a huge subscription fee on all our goods and services.

    The data needed is pretty heavy as well, it's not very pheasible to go off of donated or public domain data.

    I also think any job loss is virtually guaranteed and trying to save them is misguided as well as not really benefiting most of those affected.

    And yea, the big companies win either way but if it's easier to use this new tech, we might not lose as hard. Disney for instance doesn't have any competition but if a bunch of indie animation companies and groups start popping up, it levels the playing field a bit.

    MSgtRedFox , avatar

    In many discussions I've seen, small or independent creators are one of the focuses of loss and protection.

    Also there's the acknowledgement that existing jobs will be reduced, eliminated, or transformed.

    How much different is this from the mass elimination of the 50s stereotype secretaries? We used to have rooms full of workers typing memos, then we got computers, copiers, etc.

    I know there's a difference between a creator's work vs a job/task. I'm more curious if these same conversations came up when the office technological advances put those people out? You could find a ton more examples where advancement or efficiency gains reduced employment.

    Should technology advancement be tied to not eliminating jobs or taking away from people's claim to work?

    I know there's more complexity like greed and profits here.

    grue ,

    They want to kill the open-source scene

    Yeah, by using the argument you just gave as an excuse to "launder" copyleft works in the training data into permissively-licensed output.

    Including even a single copyleft work in the training data ought to force every output of the system to be copyleft. Or if it doesn't, then the alternative is that the output shouldn't be legal to use at all.

    Grimy ,

    100% agree, making all outputs copyleft is a great solution. We get to keep the economic and cultural boom that AI brings while keeping the big companies in check.

    winterayars ,

    That depends on what your definition of "publicly available" is. If you're scraping New York Times articles and pulling art off Tumblr then yeah, it's exactly stealing in the same way scihub is. Only difference is, scihub isn't boiling the oceans in an attempt to make rich people even richer.

    unionagainstdhmo , avatar

    Also Sci-hub don't make any money off the works

    General_Effort ,

    True, Big Tech loves monopoly power. It's hard to see how there can be an AI monopoly without expanding intellectual property rights.

    It would mean a nice windfall profit for intellectual property owners. I doubt they worry about open source or competition but only think as far as lobbying to be given free money. It's weird how many people here, who are probably not all rich, support giving extra money to owners, merely for owning things. That's how it goes when you grow up on Ayn Rand, I guess.

    kibiz0r ,

    We have a mechanism for people to make their work publically visible while reserving certain rights for themselves.

    Are you saying that creators cannot (or ought not be able to) reserve the right to ML training for themselves? What if they want to selectively permit that right to FOSS or non-profits?

    BURN ,

    That’s exactly what they’re saying. The AI proponents believe that copyright shouldn’t be respected and they should be able to ignore any licensing because “it’s hard to find data otherwise”

    Grimy ,

    Essentially yes. There isn't a happy solution where FOSS gets the best images and remains competitive. The amount of data needed is outside what can be donated. Any open source work will be so low in quality as to be unusable.

    It also won't be up to them. The platforms where the images are posted will be selling and brokering. No individual is getting a call unless they are a household name.

    None of the artists are getting paid either way so yeah, I'm thinking of society in general first.

    kibiz0r ,

    The artists (and the people who want to see them continue to have a livelihood, a distinct voice, and a healthy engaged fanbase) live in that society.

    The platforms where the images are posted will be selling and brokering

    Isn't this exactly the problem though?

    From books to radio to TV, movies, and the internet, there's always:

    • One group of people who create valuable works
    • Another group of people who monopolize distribution of those works

    The distributors hijack ownership (or de facto ownership) of the work, through one means or another (either logistical superiority, financing requirements, or IP law fuckery) and exploit their position to make themselves the only channel for creators to reach their audience and vice-versa.

    That's the precise pattern that OpenAI is following, and they're doing it at a massive scale.

    It's not new. Youtube, Reddit, Facebook, MySpace, all of these companies started with a public pitch about democratizing access to content. But a private pitch emerged, of becoming the main way that people access content. When it became feasible for them to turn against their users and liquidate them, they did.

    The difference is that they all had to wait for users to add the content over time. Imagine if Google knew they could've just seeded Google Video with every movie, episode, and clip ever aired or uploaded anywhere. Just say, "Mon Dieu! It's impossible for us to run our service without including copyrighted materials! Woe is us!" and all is forgiven.

    But honestly, whichever way the courts decide, the legality of it doesn't matter to me. It's clearly a "Whose Line Is It?" situation where the rules are made up and ownership doesn't matter. So I'm looking at "Does this consolidate power, or distribute it?" And OpenAI is pulling perhaps the biggest power grab that we've seen.


    Unrelated: I love that there's a very distinct echo of something we saw with the previous era of tech grift, crypto. The grifters would always say, after they were confronted, "Well, there's no way to undo it now! It's on the blockchain!" There's always this back-up argument of "it's inevitable so you might as well let me do it".

    Asafum ,

    Scientific research papers are generally public too, in that you can always reach out to the researcher and they'll provide the papers for free, it's just the "corporate" journals that need their profit off of other peoples work...

    SchizoDenji ,

    All of the AI fear mongering is fuelled by mega corps who fear that AI in some sort will eat into their profits and they can't make money off of it.

    Image generation also had similar outcry because open source models smoked all the commercial ones.

    Meowoem ,

    Yeah, just wait until they see the ai design tools that allow anyone to casually describe the spare part or upgrade they want and it'll be designed and printed at home or local fab shop.

    Lot of once fairly safe monopolies are going to start looking very shaky, and then things like natural language cookery toolarms disrupting even more...

    We've only barely started to see what the tech we have now is able to do, yes a million shitty chat bots / img gen apps are cashing in on the hype but when we start seeing some killer apps emerge it's when people won't be able to ignore it any longer

    BURN ,

    Too bad

    If you can’t afford to pay the authors of the data required for your project to work, then that sucks for you, but doesn’t give you the right to take anything you want and violate copyright.

    Making a data agnostic model and releasing the source is fine, but a released, trained model owes royalties to its training data.

    deweydecibel , (edited )

    The point is the entire concept of AI training off people's work to make profit for others is wrong without the permission of and compensation for the creator regardless if it's corporate or open source.

    Angry_Maple , avatar

    I think I've decided to not publish anything that I want to keep ownership of, just in case. There's an entire planet's worth of countries, which will all have their own sets of laws. It takes waay too long to polish something, only to just give it away for free haha. Someone else is free to do that work if it is that easy. No skin off my back.

    I think it's similar to many other hand-made crafts/items. Most people will buy their clothes from stores, but there are definitely still people who make beautiful clothing from hand better than machines could.

    Don't even get me started on stuff like knitting. It already costs the creator a crap ton of money just for the materials. It takes a crap ton of time to make those, too. Despite the costs, many people just expect those knitted pieces for practically free. The people who expect that pricing are also free to go with machine-produced crafts/items instead.

    It comes down to what people want, and what they're willing to pay, imo. Some people will find value in something physically being put together by another human, and other people will find value in having more for less. Neither is "wrong" necessarily, so long as no one is literally ripped off. (With over 8 billion people, it's bound to happen at least once. I feel bad for whoever that is.)

    That being said, we'll never be able to honestly say that the specific skills and techniques that are currenty required are the exact same. It would be like calling a photographer amazing at realism painting because their photo looks like real life. Photographers and painters both have their place, but they are not the exact same.

    I think that's also part of what's frustrating so many artists. Coding AI is not the same as using the colour wheel, choosing materials, working fine motor control, etc. It's not learning about shadows, contrast, focal points, etc. I can definitely understand people not wanting those aspects to be brushed off, especially since it usually takes most of a lifetime to achieve. A music generator and a violin may both make great music, but they are not the same, and they require different technical skills.

    I'll never buy AI art if I have any say in the matter. I'll support handmade stuff first, every time.

    Grimy , (edited )

    There is definitely more value in hand made art. Even the fanciest prints on canvas can't compare and I don't think AI art will be evoking the same feelings a john waterhouse exhibit does any time soon.

    On the subject of publishing, I've chosen to embrace it personally. My view is that even the hidden stuff on our comp ends up in a Chinese or US databases anyways.

    Meowoem ,

    I love that the people who push this kind of rhetoric often consider themselves left wing, it's just so silly.

    'every word you ever utter must be considered private property and no other human may benefit from it without payments!'

    I mean yes I know you're going to say socialism is about workers getting fair pay but come on, this is just pure rent seeking. We're a global community of people, if this comment helps train an ai that can help other people better live their lives, better access medicine and education or other services then I think that's a wonderful thing.

    And yes of course it should be open source and free to all people, that's why these pushes to make sure only corporations can afford ai are so infuriating

    General_Effort ,

    So true.

    This talking point, too, is so infuriatingly silly:

    I mean yes I know you’re going to say socialism is about workers getting fair pay

    Workers, by definition, don't own what they produce. Copyrights are intellectual property; business capital. Somehow, capitalists are workers in the minds of these people. This is your mind on trickle-down economics.

    Coasting0942 ,

    This is the hardest thing to explain to people. Just convert it into a person with unlimited memory.

    Open AI is sending said person to view every piece of human work, learns and makes connections, then make art or reports based on what you tell/ask this person.

    Sci-Hub is doing the same thing but you can ask it for a specific book and they will write it down word for word for you, an exact copy.

    Both morally should be free to do so. But we have laws that say the sci-hub human is illegally selling the work of others. Whereas the open ai human has to be given so many specific instructions to reproduce a human work that it’s practically like handing it a book and it handing the book back to you.

    Mango ,

    What data is public?

    richieadler ,

    Cue the Max Headroom episode where the blanks (disconnected people) are chased by the censors because the blanks steal cable so their children can watch the educational shows and learn to read, and they are forced to use clandestine printing presses to teach them.

    mPony ,

    what's this? an anti-corporate message that sneers at cable TV companies??? CANCEL THAT SHOW!!!

    that show was so amazingly prescient: the theme of the first episode was how advertising literally kills its viewers and the news covers things up. No wonder they didn't get renewed. ;)

    grue ,
    burliman ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • givesomefucks ,

    Because it's easy to get these chatbots to output direct copyrighted text...

    Even ones the company never paid for, not even just a subscription for a single human to view the articles they're reproducing. Like, think of it as buying a movie, then burning a copy for anyone who asks.

    Which reproducing word for word for people who didn't pay is still a whole nother issue. So this is more like torrenting a movie, then seeding it.

    burliman ,

    It’s not that easy, don’t believe the articles being broadcasted every day. They are heavily cherry picked.

    Also, if someone is creating copyright works, it is on that person to be responsible if they release or sell it, not the tool they used. Just because the tool can be good (learns well and responds well when asked to make a clone of something) doesn't mean it is the only thing it does or must do. It is following instructions, which were to make a thing. The one giving the instructions is the issue, and the intent of that person when they distribute is the issue.

    If I draw a perfect clone of Donald Duck in the privacy of my home after looking at hundreds of Donald Duck images online, there is nothing wrong with that. If I go on Etsy and start selling them without a license, they will come after ME. Not because I drew it, but because I am selling it and violating a copyright. They won’t go after the pencil or ink manufacturer. And they won’t go after Adobe if I drew it on a computer with Photoshop.

    givesomefucks ,

    If I draw a perfect clone of Donald Duck in the privacy of my home after looking at hundreds of Donald Duck images online, there is nothing wrong with that

    In your picture example it would be an exact copy...

    But even if you started a business and when people asked for a picture of Donald Duck, giving them a traced copy is still copyright infringement... Hell, even your bad analogy of a person's own drawing, still copyright infringement

    The worst thing about these chatbots is the people who think it's amazing don't understand what it's doing. If you understood it, it wouldn't be impressive.

    Grimy ,

    You are missing his point. Is Disney going after the one who is selling the copy online, or are they going after Adobe?

    givesomefucks ,

    In that analogy, openai is the one selling it, because their the ones using it to prop up their product.

    I didn't think I needed to explicitly state that, but well, here we are.

    Have a nice life tho. I'm over accounts that stop replying to one thread of replies and then just go and reply to one of my other comments asking me to explain what I've already told them.

    Waaaay easier to just never see replies from that account

    Grimy ,

    Some of us have to work for a living, I can't reply to every comment the moment it comes in and it seems rude to break the chaine.

    In his analogy, openais product was the tool. You can do the same with both img gen and Photoshop, and neither of these prop up their product by implying it's easy to copyright infringe. That's why I said you were missing his point but you do you buddy.

    webghost0101 ,

    That guy is total loss, a tragic clown as i am not sure if i should cry or laugh about them.
    I am not sure what businesses they had in this argument at all except pissing off people who are better informed.

    I've only just saw the comment where he seemed to suggest that the final trained model contains all trained materials in full.... and that combined with not once but multiple times pretending they know all about llm's that foss ai doesnt exist and we its we that all dont know how any of this tech works...
    i seriously have to restrain myself to leave that gross misconception as it is as i don't want them to respond. I hope the down-votes do their job.

    I am sorry to vent, kinda just had to :)

    TrickDacy ,


    TwilightVulpine ,

    Because humans have more rights than tools. You are free to look at copyrighted text and pictures, memorize them and describe them to others. It doesn't mean you can use a camera to take and share pictures of it.

    Acting like every right that AIs have must be identical to humans', and if not that means the erosion of human rights, is a fundamentally flawed argument.

    damnthefilibuster , in Flipboard is pivoting to ActivityPub and the fediverse

    Flipboard is still a thing?

    onlinepersona , in Netflix Resumes Advertising on X After Elon Musk Controversy

    Capitalism. As soon as bad PR is over, it's back to business.

    xantoxis ,

    When is his bad PR ever over?

    sukhmel ,

    When the cool down counter reduces to zero. He's preparing the next bad PR though

    lando55 ,

    It has been 1 0 days since the last Elon PR disaster

    greencactus ,

    To defeat the Huns...
    But seriously, I am amazed at how quickly these changes go. It almost seems that they don't really care about the impact of their actions ;)

    satanmat , in Im looking for a privacy friendly DNS

    Run a Pi-hole with Unbound

    Shadywack , avatar

    Seriously, can vouch for this. Pi-hole is great!

    vsis , in Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working avatar

    EVs are expensive because of the battery.

    A cheap car is not a novelty, specially for asian manufacturers. There is no cheap EV because there is no cheap big ion-li battery.

    Toyota strategy of focus on hybrid and hydrogen seemed weird to me. But over the years has been started to make sense.

    The world needs a better battery. Until that, EVs will be heavy and expensive.

    tinkeringidiot ,

    Very much this. Lithium batteries are the best battery we’ve got (at manufacturing scale) so far in terms of energy storage density, but the best we’ve got isn’t very good.

    Gasoline has an energy storage density of around 13 MJ/kg. That’s a ton of energy, so much so that a vehicle can waste most of it generating so much heat that we have to bolt on a cooling system (with the associated weight) and still have enough to go highway speeds for hundreds of miles on a quantity of fuel weighing less than one of the passengers.

    Toyota loves hydrogen because it’s got a storage density slightly higher than gasoline. Hydrogen has some serious volume and storage issues, but the density is there.

    Contrast that with lithium ion batteries at ~0.7 MJ/kg (for the really good ones, which usually aren’t used in cars). Less waste heat, to be sure, but the bulk of the vehicles weight, the main factor in speed and travel distance, is the insane amount of material necessary to store the “fuel”.

    Electric motors are far more efficient than ICE, but we need orders-of-magnitude improvements in battery storage density before EV can really take advantage of the greater efficiency. Until then manufacturers don’t have a choice, EV will be heavy and thus expensive.

    Hypx , avatar

    Hydrogen cars are basically EVs without the giant battery. So it neatly avoids the huge cost and weight problem. Which is why Toyota thinks they are the future.

    Nastybutler , in X says it is worth $19 billion, down from $44 billion last year

    He called it an “inverse startup”. So, a shut down?

    Asudox , avatar


    maxprime , in Microsoft may replace the Start button with the Copilot AI in Windows 12

    This might just be the push I need to switch to Linux desktop.

    anon_8675309 ,

    Do it.

    cheese_greater ,


    SK4nda1 ,

    Do it. With proton the last argument for me to use windows is gone (gaming).

    PeachMan , avatar

    Well, it’s not GONE. There are still plenty of games that won’t run well on Linux, or they won’t allow online multiplayer because their anti-cheat software is restricted to Windows. But that number is getting smaller every day.

    sadreality ,

    Call of Duty was a small sacrifice to make to regain control of the machine.

    SK4nda1 ,

    Thats why I specified that, for me, that was enough to switch. I agree that proton isnt there yet and 100% compatibility, and we will probably never get to that. But there are enough games on the market for me to do 90% of my gaming on Linux these days.

    PeachMan , avatar

    Yeah and it’s getting closer all the time. I don’t think we’re that far from a “tipping point” where Windows gets so shitty, and simultaneously Linux gets so good (for gaming specifically) that it would be silly not to switch.

    Any day now…

    Kidplayer_666 ,

    INCOMING (artillery barrage with different distros). Unfortunately I have a bad feeling that chrome OS will win the Linux wars

    Gabadabs , avatar

    I'm really not convinced that even if linux, at some point, does become a better platform for gaming than windows, that windows users will swap over. Mainstream gamers probably have never installed an OS before, it's intimidating for people.

    PeachMan , avatar

    In its current state I would stick with Windows. But if they make it shittier and shittier… theoretically there is a point where gamers would start switching en masse. Whether or not it will get that bad is debatable.

    olympicyes ,

    Ubuntu 23.10 is the first mainstream Linux desktop distro that I think could be good enough for many windows users. Windows really needs to fumble for this to happen though.

    sep ,

    But there are so very many games that do work. That those that do not, i can easily ignore.

    VaultBoyNewVegas ,

    Meh. I don’t play multiplayer games at all other than FFXIV and that I haven’t played in over a year. The only thing that would deter me is some visual novels I play are windows only but I could probably just run them in a virtual machine as they’re not demanding.

    olympicyes ,

    Games like that just reinforce that a large segment of the gaming population will prioritize Windows, and developers go where the players are. I used to dual boot windows but now run windows as a VM with a VFIO gpu. Works great but it’s annoying to need that for just a few applications.

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    I doubt VNs have anti-cheat, so you can just run them in Proton or WINE.

    metaStatic ,

    I'm still on windows because I multibox my main game and the tools to do it don't work, alt tab is a goddamn mess, minimize window on focus loss is a fucking nightmare, and multiple instances of proton just chew up system resources until the game starts lagging so hard I need to quit every client and try again.

    it's an edge case but that's quite a lot to deal with when windows just works.

    sour , avatar


    SK4nda1 ,


    PrMinisterGR ,

    I’m just waiting for full real parity (HDR, and some RT stuff), and I’m gone.

    amelia ,

    Can you run Adobe software via proton? As soon as that works I’ll be on Linux.

    TheOSINTguy ,

    No, but there are better alternatives to adobe that don’t hog your ram harder then triple a games

    rasensprenger ,

    Depends one what you need to do, there are some areas in which adobe still has a monopoly

    SK4nda1 ,

    Look at your usecase, if it really requires adobe suite, you are out of luck i’m afraid. Perhaps you could research running a VM or wine, but I havent tried any of that myself.

    If you conclude that you dont need features exclusive to adobe you might be able to find a foss alternative.

    amelia ,

    I need Lightroom and I’ve tried Darktable but it just doesn’t cut it.

    netchami , avatar

    Perhaps you could research running a VM

    It works very well, especially if you pass through your GPU and storage. I can even use this setup for Gaming, no significant performance loss compared to Windows. It’s awesome.

    ares35 , avatar

    been working on it here. i've just moved my multi-monitor setup at the office over to debian mint, and relegated windows to a crt.

    i can't go "all in", as supporting windows desktops "pays the rent", but it'll be "all but one" at home and at the office.

    CraigeryTheKid ,

    I spent the last ~10 days “playing” with many distros, including testing some current games, and I am literally right now backing up my files and about to reformat my main PC to linux (full drive, no dual). This is after only having experience with copy-paste Raspberry PI guides for my pi-hole.

    Don’t totally believe “oh it’s so easy, nothing to configure” - those people are lying, especially if you’ve not used Linux before. But several flavors of Ubuntu are quite pleasant, and I appear to have found a home with PopOS. I can’t find anything that “doesn’t work”, and the worst fixes were just quick searches for help. PopOS won due to nvidia compatibility and a nice, snappy desktop. It also was the fastest in overall reformat cycle time. My wife’s computer is still Windows, if I do have any microsoft emergencies.

    orclev ,

    There are some games that just will not work even under proton, or that have functional restrictions. It’s way fewer games than it used to be, but it’s still not an absolutely perfect solution. I would love to make Linux my gaming OS instead of my “getting shit done” OS like it currently is, I’ve been advocating for it for a few decades at this point and it’s almost there, but it’s not to a point yet where I can unreservedly recommend it to gamers. If you aren’t a gamer I’d say it’s already good enough for anything you need.

    meco03211 ,

    How easy was setting up the pi-hole?

    EatYouWell ,

    It’s stupid easy. Flash DietPi to the SD card, select pi hole from the package list, then point your router to the IP for DNS.

    Of course, it should be plugged directly into your router, so a zero won’t work without an ethernet hat.

    AtariDump ,

    This is where I’d say to visit /r/PiHole but it doesn’t work that way over here and I’ve no idea how to link to a sub yet soo….

    Checkout it the PiHole website.

    CraigeryTheKid ,

    It’s “easy” - but that is very subjective, depending on how much you’ve down outside “turning Windows on”. You DO need to make sure your router allows assigning a DNS ip address. Some ISP-supplied units are rather locked down.

    I recommend a “kit” from somewhere like CanaKit (amazon has them), to make sure you get the parts you need. It can run on smaller/cheaper kits, but I say get a Pi3 or 4 variant.

    Then following the link above, there is great documentation on install. Install “Putty” on windows, which will log into your Pi and allow remote command line, and then the entire process is copy-paste from guides.

    After you finish, you may feel “oh that was easy!” - but there’s still some stuff to learn and get used to along the way.

    hperrin ,

    Congrats on picking an awesome distro! :) Pop is really nice, and I’m really excited to see what they do with their desktop environment. I feel like we’re spoiled for choice right now on Linux.

    There are always things to configure, just like on Windows. I think some people kind of forget that they had to learn to configure things on Windows at one point. xD

    CraigeryTheKid ,

    Ok wow… did I jinx myself with this post. Immediately after posting here, I began the install/config phase of a fresh reformat. Encountered a weirdness that the system couldn’t sleep/suspend - immediately woke up. 8 hours later… After installing 5 different distros to confirm it was ALL linux versions (even debian)…

    I spent the entire day, 8 hours, searching and referencing and troubleshooting. FINALLY one very random corner of the internet, on an ARCH-LINUX forum, a small comment mentioned that my Gigabyte B550 “had a problem” with sleep. SO THEN I had to start cross-referencing those words (couldn’t “use” the Arch guide, since I was on Pop), and my dude/dudette… I was up to 1am.

    Ultimately, I had to COMBINE the “solutions” of FOUR different results, across 2017-2020 (none actually on Ubuntu 22.04) to get the fix to work. Like one taught me the script, but the locations were wrong, one taught me the service I needed, but it was outdated, and then another taught how to fix a service, etc etc, cascading solutions.

    SO at close to 2AM - after documenting my own guide, another raw metal install of PopOS, wrote my script & service… and… “it just works!” (pun intended). It works. It sleeps. Have to disable the Gigabyte B550M “GPP0 and GPP8” device, which are bridges to the NVMe drives.

    Funny enough though, as much as this is “yup, thats Linux!” I feel like it’s not fair, and not Linux’s fault. This is a random, and really unlucky, issue with my specific board. I am typing this to you, while on my new PopOS install, and sleep/suspend still works.

    What a ride!

    hperrin ,

    Wow. That’s unfortunate, but hey, you got it working! Congrats! :D

    CraigeryTheKid ,

    as I keep chatting to you on a windows thread…

    remembering I started linux 9 days ago, hopefully that’s the biggest adventure I go on for awhile. I wonder if there’s some place I should post my story, but maybe it’s too specific to be wildly helpful.

    vacuumflower ,

    OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is rather easy.

    But anyway, no mainstream user-friendly Linux distribution is that hard to use if you can read and think.

    So when people say that they can’t manage one on their desktop - they also usually can’t manage Windows on their desktop, they just think they can.

    Kbobabob ,

    Lol, every single Microsoft article has this comment.

    wreckedcarzz ,

    [5 years later]

    “it wasn’t”

    notenoughbutter ,

    if you’re using windows in 2023, I doubt it

    maxprime ,

    I use Windows, macOS, and Linux, but all in separate ways. Haven’t used a desktop Linux in quite some time — only headless Linux servers.